saw senator benson go from someone who wasn't that good to being a great debater on the night he met dan quayle. we have to expect he'll be prepared and give a very good performance. >> will he have to give specifics? what will independents want to hear? >> well, you know, that's his problem. i mean, listen, this guy cannot defend the math of his proposals because in the math they use to find the money to pay for a $5 trillion tax cut for the wealthiest americans, two plus two equals five. that's why they can't dot math. there's absolutely no way for this thing to add up. i think when he's pressed, and he will be by someone like jim lehr, he'll be pressed by specifics. that's when the rubber will meet the road for mitt romney. if he doesn't have the numbers to back him up, he'll have a very big challenge. >> he'll be pressed by lehr but another guy there named barack obama pressing too many. we'll be watching. tad devine and wes moore, thank you for your time. >>> coming up, paul ryan has his own secret tape, claiming that 30% of americans want their welfare stake. that explosive video i